SEAN BURKE: You gotta understand, you’ve never encountered this kind of academic stress before, or rigor.

MR. BURKE: You get called out for the first time in your life.

MR. BURKE: Junior year, I don’t know, buckle up, hop on the roller coaster and then survive.

MR. BURKE: I would love every student to leave TJ with the understanding that they are smarter having come to TJ than if they would have gone anywhere else.

GRACE SHARMA: This week, I spoke with counselor Sean Burke. Throughout his over 25 year career as a counselor, he has accumulated invaluable pieces of advice. From how to build a four-year plan to cultivating strong relationships with teachers, this episode walks you through everything you need to know to survive four years at Jefferson. Welcome to tjTALKS.

MR. BURKE: Hello, I’m Sean Burke, school counselor at TJ. This is my 21st year at TJ and 25th year in the county.

GRACE: When did you first realize you wanted to be a counselor?

MR. BURKE: I don’t know if I ever did. So my father, in the mid-90s—I was about 24 or 25—kept harassing me. He was like, “You should take this class, ‘Self in Society.’” I was like, “Dad, why would I do that?” He’s like, “You know, you’d be a good school counselor.” It’s like the beginning of a program, so I’m like, “Yeah, whatever.” So my dad’s like, “All right, if you do a class, I’ll pay a third of it once you finish it,.” I was like, “Okay.” My dad’s like, “See me signed up?” I’m like, “No.” He’s like, “I’ll play for a half once you finish it.” I was like, “Okay, didn’t sign up yet.” Finally, my dad’s like, “I’ll pay for the whole course, just take it.” So I was like, “Alright.” So I took this class and it’s a very interesting class. They only take fifteen people, and there’s a professor and a teacher’s assistant, so it’s almost like having two professors.  And what happens is, everything is group related, so half the class sits in a circle, and you just unload in a way you’ve never unloaded before. You just share everything, and there’s people behind one-way mirrors. So half the class is watching, and then half the class is interacting. And then you do that for, like, 20 minutes, and then you all come together and you talk about, like, “Well, Grace, why did you say this when so and so said that? It looks so you missed the, you know, whatever it is,” and you get called out for the first time in your life for your rubbish and your weaknesses and your stuff that’s not quite right. So it’s an incredibly emotionally difficult class, and what they’re trying to do is, I know this is more than you wanted, but what they’re trying to do is weed out those that aren’t in touch with their feelings, can’t express themselves and don’t express appropriate empathy and sympathy, because you don’t want that person being a school counselor. So I finally did this class, and it was terrifying. It was so difficult, but when I got done with it, I was like, I think I could do this. So I just for the next three years, went to school at night and took as many classes as I could, went as fast I could, did my internship, and then I was almost 30-years-old, and I interviewed up and down the Northeast and all the way down to Atlanta, actually, and got a job in Fairfax County.

GRACE: What do you think about it? What do you think about the class made you want to be a counselor? Like, what about it resonated with you?

MR. BURKE: I think I realized that one, I had a lot to deal with in my own life in terms of my emotional experience and what I went through as a child at the same time. I don’t think I realized that I was actually good at listening to people and that I had, not a gift, but I could understand people’s emotions quickly, like I kind of would get where they’re going with it. So I felt like it was starting to be a good fit for who I was, because prior to that, like, I went to school, I studied really hard, I got B’s. It’s, like, so sad. It’s like, when TJ kids come in, they’re like, crying about their GPA.  It’s almost like, I think to myself, “What if I told TJ kids I had a 3.0 in high school?” They’ll be like, “Oh my God, why am I talking to this person?” So for me, it was one of those things where, like, I’m kind of good. I could be good at this. And that was somewhat inspiring. And at the time, I was working in group homes with mentally retarded, autistic adults, and I was making like, $7 an hour, you know, $8 an hour. So between two jobs, I made like, 20 grand. That’s it’s barely livable. So another part of me was just like, I might not love this school counseling thing, but there’s a retirement package, there’s pay increases. I wasn’t in group homes. You’re subject to the state budget, and most normal people don’t love taxes, so therefore, you don’t get paid well. So part of it was also functional, and you get a better paying job.

GRACE: Okay, so you take this class and you finish all your requirements, and then you get a job at Fairfax County. Was that directly to TJ, or did you go somewhere else?

MR. BURKE: No, I started at Woodson. So I had an offer in Loudoun between two different high schools, but I was split between two schools in my first year on the job. I was like, that’s probably not a good idea. So I went to Woodson. I did four years at Woodson, and then a counselor retired at TJ, and they needed a male counselor, and I interviewed, and then I said no, because I just done four years at Woodson, I finally figured Woodson out, people know who I am. I thought, I was like, “I think I’m okay at this I was getting, I thought developing a good reputation, not great, because I was young, so I was like, why would I leave?” And then Nina Pickens, who was the director here, kept coming back to me. And then my uncle, my aunt, we were down in North Carolina with my wife, Mrs. Matricardi, who’s the art teacher, and I remember talking to my aunt and uncle. I think it was my aunt, or maybe it was my uncle, who was just like, “Isn’t it nice to work where you’re wanted?” or something like that. And I was like, I thought about that, and Ms. Nina Pickens really, really wanted me, and thought I’d be great at TJ, so I came, eventually I said yes.

GRACE: How was that transition coming to TJ? What were some of the things that were different?

MR. BURKE: Oh, it was totally different. Like, I’d never written recommendations like that. Like, I’d interview all my seniors, “Grace, tell me about yourself.” And I have every, you know, every kid’s got a folder with your name on it, so I would take notes all over it. So, like, I’ve never written recs like that. I used to have conferences at Woodson every day, you know, parent-teacher conferences at TJ. I’m like, “Do we do parent teacher conferences? Everyone has got straight A’s.” So, like, I didn’t have to do conferences anymore. So sometimes I do conferences. Now I get nervous because I’m so rusty. In the old days, I did them, like, three or four times a week minimum. So, no conferences were weird. The lack of bells, kids everywhere. People left for lunch all the time. Back then, no one cared. I once had an English teacher, Cathy Colglazier. She used to be like, you know, in charge of English. She came down one time, and she’s like, “Hey, can you tell Connor to come to class?” I was like, “Sure.” She goes, “I haven’t seen him in two weeks.” So I find my soccer player, Connor. I’m like, “Hey, Russomono, can you go to class please? Colglazier is looking for you.” He’s like, “Oh, yeah. My bad, my bad. It’s been a while.” So he just goes back to class. No call home, no referral. It was just different. It was a very open school, so it was amazing to me. I’m like, oh, this is fascinating. You just go find a kid and say, “Hey, could you go back to class?” And the TJ kid’s like, “Yes, I will.” Meanwhile, Woodson, you’d be like, “Hey, do this.” They go like, “Screw you.” You know, it was just like a totally different vibe. So I was blown away by the students. I was worried the parents weren’t going to take me seriously. Because, who am I? Some guy who worked in group homes, coming from Woodson, but TJ parents were great. So it was a very smooth transition.

GRACE: What have you noticed about the more emotional side of counseling, of, like, working with students for confidence things, or you know, the more emotional sides of it, rather than just being like, “Oh, go to class.”

MR. BURKE: Yeah, that’s what I love to do. Like, I love to chat with kids about what’s going on in their emotional worlds. And like, right now, I would say, like, there’s not a more difficult time to be a teenager than now. It seems like every year gets a little more complicated. I mean, you guys now are taking on gender. You’re taking on sexuality now, you’re getting involved in politics. The world’s kind of on fire, so there’s a lot going on emotionally, and that’s one thing to circle back to your first question. My program was very much like, we’re going to train you as a therapist, we did a lot of recording of our sessions. So I love having kids in my office and having them, like, sort of express what’s going on and whatnot, and doing that kind of work, because I think if you can’t start talking about what’s bothering you emotionally, how you gonna learn so it’s impossible.

GRACE: What’s your biggest piece of advice for how to handle stuff like that, if people are feeling overwhelmed?

MR. BURKE: I think you just gotta talk, right? I think the hardest thing at TJ for all of us is the imposter syndrome, right? If I admit, “Man, I’m really lost here,” I would think everybody else in class would be like, “Oh, thank God, Mr. Burke, give me a holiday because I’m feeling the same way.” But nobody wants to say it. You know, that’s why, sometimes in the hallways now, I’m like, if someone asked me how I’m doing, I’m just honest. I’m like, “No, I’m having a terrible day. Like, my life sucks. I’m 54. My life’s like, two-thirds over. It’s terrifying. What am I doing with myself? Like, what do I do, you know?” So for me, I feel like, at TJ, everyone is sort of like, trying to, like, fake it till you make it, you know, like, Instagram your life, make it look beautiful. And that’s not really the case. So I just wish people would be honest with how they feel, share out with a friend or find a trusted adult. I mean, I don’t know how you feel about the faculty at TJ, but the faculty, the TJ, for me, is amazing, you know, like they’re so like, “Yes, how can I help you?” So for me, I’m always like, just ask your teacher. Just say, “I’m stuck here.” I think our faculty are more emotionally attuned to what’s going on than kids realize. And I wish they would just ask for help, you know, just, I think sharing allows you to get the problem out, and you can start sifting through it, keeping it inside. It’s just gonna, you know, erode you from the inside.

GRACE: How do you think a student, like, what should a student look for in a trusted adult? Or if they’re trying to find someone they can talk to, or stuff like that?

MR. BURKE: Yeah, that’s a great question. I guess it’s probably different for everybody, but for me, like, I just want someone who’s not going to judge me, like I don’t need to be judged. I already don’t like myself. You know, I’m saying like, I’m already hard enough for myself, and TJ kids are already hard enough on themselves. Like, I think you need to find someone who’s gonna be like, warts and all, I’m here for you. I’ll stand by you. I believe in you. Yeah, you’ve fallen down, but that’s okay. I’ve fallen down, too. Like, I think the narrative that adults have it all put together is just rubbish. We don’t, we’re never going to. So why not just be real with kids, and then they’ll be like, “Oh my God. They’re struggling just like I am. They want Christmas break just as much as I do. They want a snow day just as badly as I do.” So I would say, the lack of judgment, the willingness to be like, you know, we can work on this. There’s a solution, you know, because people have done this before. I was a teenager, and yet I’ve turned out okay, we can get through this if we get help, and we just be honest.

GRACE: That makes sense. So in terms of TJ, specifically going from freshman to senior year, what are some things you think people should keep in mind for each year, on what they should try to accomplish, or what they should do to take care of themselves?

MR. BURKE: Wow, that’s a great question. Yeah, freshman year, I guess the easiest low-hanging fruit would be just transition. Like, give yourself a year, I would say. Accept that kindergarten to eighth grade, their mission was not you. It’s not like, “Let’s get Grace ready for TJ, that’s the goal, that kid right there.” Because, like, every school is sending us, what, two or three kids, so the schools don’t care about TJ. So understand you’re coming to TJ because TJ believes that you will excel in our program and you will love our program. That’s awesome. So have the confidence that you were selected for a reason, but understand you’ve never encountered this kind of academic stress before, or rigor or depth, whatever you wish to call it. So give yourself a year to get your you know what kicked around a little bit, and not beat yourself up and understand it’s a learning process. No one gets into marathon shape right away. So give yourself a year to get in shape, learn TJ, find your friend group, find a hobby or club—not several, just one or two—and then build, you know, your community slowly. So ninth grade, I would say adjust, get to know the lay of the land. Find older students that you trust to download that information because, like, you don’t want to make mistakes that everyone makes. Like I would find older students be like, “What should I do for course selection? Sophomore year? Talk to me. Do I need to do this, that?” So downloading, like, peer mentoring, I think is really important, especially for ninth graders. Then in 10th grade, right? You’re like, the lost ones, like, no one cares about you, right? Because freshman year it’s like, “Oh yeah, we got to get you through this.” Seniors were like, come on. We gotta get you out of here.” Juniors, it’s like, “Come on. Hang on. You know, you can do this. You can survive physics.” So at the end of the sophomore year, it’s just like, “Yeah, yeah, good luck with Driver’s Ed. You’re going to be fine. Don’t worry about it.” So I would say sophomore year is sort of where I think you’re kind of on your own for the first time. So self self-advocacy, I would say, develop the relationship with the school counselor, which will be helpful junior year and senior to college stuff.  So I would say, start building that whole like, who you know is more important than what you know sophomore year kind of thing. Build your mentors. Find older people that you can rely on to build that stuff. And then obviously, take your community work and your school work. And how far can you push it? Can you make the world a better place? Can you start building in the foundation for junior year? Now, you’re running a club, and things are really making, you know, movement progress, whatever you’re trying to accomplish, is happening. So I’d say sophomore year sort of preparing for that. And then junior year, I don’t know, buckle up, hop on the roller coaster and then survive. Obviously, as you know, junior year, start strong, hang on for dear life, and then get help whenever you need it. I mean, that’s to me, it’s like, junior year should be like, “I’m going to hang with my counselor every now and then, because I have to, you know, chat it out.” Because, as you know, relationships in junior year, all of a sudden, start to get real too. And that gets complicated because dating is not easy, especially when no one knows what they’re doing. So I’d say junior year, you know, continue that club growth, solidify that. Teacher relationships are massive, right? Because you need them for recommendations. So start to really put energy into teachers, into your counselor, Ms. Gilchrest, Ms.
Frostad any other adult in your life, continue to build that and then senior year, just right in the summer, because you’re not going to want to do that during the school year, right? Homecoming, right? You want to be part of every second of it, even when you hate TJ, you still want to enjoy homecoming. So for seniors, get your work done early and then try to smell the roses, slow down.

GRACE: Going back to what you said, building relationships with teachers. How would you say is a good way to build relationships with teachers?

MR. BURKE: I don’t know. What would you say?

GRACE: You have to say.

MR. BURKE: Okay, all right.

GRACE: This isn’t my opinion, this is your opinion.

MR. BURKE: This is like 60 Minutes, like I’m on Fox and Friends right now. Crazy liberal, they’re coming at me. All right, so I’ll answer it then. So sorry, say it again.

GRACE: How would you say, you mentioned junior year is really important. You have to build good relationships with your teachers.

MR. BURKE: Okay, all right, so building a relationship with a teacher this is the simplest thing would be, for instance, I love the Buffalo Bills I’m wearing. I like soccer, Manchester United. “What’s up with Bills, Burke?” Or “Mr. Burke, why are you never in your office?”, and “Mr. Burke, why are people outside your door all the time? Are you that slow at your job?” You know, a little bit of humor, a little bit of engagement. So I would say, like, obviously you can be the brown noser, you know, in class, raise your hand at every chance and do that. That’s lovely, and you should do that and obviously contribute to the conversations because that’s what teachers are going to talk about. But “How was your break? How was your holiday? What’d you do this summer?” Or, “Oh my God, love your haircut.” I mean, you kids might not realize this, but you know, if someone dresses nicely and you’re like, “Oh, you look nice today,” adults love that. Like, we’re not beyond that, just like you guys love it when someone’s like, “Oh my God, you look so nice today.” You’re like, “Oh, thank you very much.” So, nice compliment. “Are you having a good morning? What’s your schedule like this year?” All that stuff. So I think it’s just, it’s almost just make the effort, just to check in with them. And I think sometimes teachers will be like, “I really appreciated that.” It will catch them, that was really thoughtful. Because I think sometimes everything is so transactional. Here, you know, we’re all like, “I’m the teacher, you’re the student. Give information, give it back, grade.” It’s nice sometimes to get out of that loop and just be like, “So what kind of music do you like?” You know, when do you do this, you know, like Dr. Stickler. He likes Miami, you know, the football team. I like the Bills. We hate each other, so I give him grief, he gives me grief. That stuff is fun. Also, I think when you build a relationship, when it gets that back to the business, I don’t like how you graded, that the teacher is going to take you more seriously if they know you. I think that’s just another benefit. So your grades will probably get better if I do get better by doing that. But I would say just simple, like, everyday conversation stuff is a good way to start. Or if you’re struggling, just be like, “I don’t know what to do here. I’m so lost. I’m studying. I’m spinning my wheels. Nothing’s working.” I don’t think kids realize that adults, when they’re asked to be like, “I need you.” Like, when a young person’s like, “Mr. Burke, I need your help.” Like that feels great. Like you are selecting me to help you, or as your teacher, you believe in my teaching, and you’re like, “Can you explain this to me again? I’m not getting it,” What a gift, I think, for me, and I think other teachers feel the same way, like bringing a teacher in to help you gives that teacher a win, and then they’re going to look fondly upon that experience, and that relationship with you and the teacher is going to grow. So ask for help, engage and develop a relationship.

GRACE: That makes sense.

MR. BURKE: I hope it does.

GRACE: It does. What would you recommend people do during the summer? I know you mentioned senior year summer, right, for college apps, but what about the other years?

MR. BURKE: Yeah, do something that you like. I mean, honestly, I would be an advocate of lifeguarding, eat ice cream, go on dates, play ultimate frisbee, you know, go to the beach, Boogie Board, body surf, collect shells, you know. But like, this is TJ. So the answer for TJ would be the summer after freshman year, you probably could do a summer course. If you have to, summer after sophomore year, you can probably get into some basic internship, and then junior summer before senior year, that’s when you want to do the heavy duty internship. But there’s nothing wrong with just having fun, travel, family.

GRACE: When do you think students should start thinking about college?

MR. BURKE: Probably sophomore year, I would say, like, right about December, sophomore year, start engaging juniors a little bit. Seniors, “Hey, where’d you apply? Why those schools? When did you start visiting? Who’d you go with? When did you visit? Did you take notes? Are visits boring? What’s a tour like? Did you eat the food, you know? Like, how did you get your list going?” Like, that kind of stuff. So I think sophomore year, you can start to think about it a little bit. I don’t want to, I don’t want to go too much earlier than that. It just seems too stressful.

GRACE: What do you think is the biggest thing a student should take out of high school, like a high school experience, what should they try to take out of it?

MR. BURKE: I just would love to have every student leave TJ with the understanding that they are smarter having come to TJ than if they would have gone anywhere else. Their GPA might not to them reflect that, and they might not be proud of it. They may be disappointed about it, but you cannot deny that by being a TJ, you’re a stronger student. You know, you’re just so much more equipped for the college curriculum you’re about to encounter. Because it just breaks my heart. Sometimes kids are like, “Why’d I come here?” I know, once they get to college, then the answer appears, but I’d love for them to walk across that stage and be like, there’s not another student in this country or in this world that received a better education, maybe the same, maybe a different, but not better. I mean that to me, and maybe it’s the jealous 3.0 Sean Burke who was never smart enough for TJ, never smart enough to get straight A’s. Maybe that’s just me, my jealousy and my admiration for smart people coming through. But to me, what a gift to walk across the stage, shake Dr. B’s hand, or whoever is our principal, and be like, I’m at my peak for my age right now, and I get to go to college, brand new, GPA, brand new, everything. How exciting would that be, just to feel the power of that? That I am super smart and there’s no stopping. That’s what I would love.

GRACE: What do you think a student’s mindset should be? Then going into college, it’s like, you got through high school and you graduate. Then what should they look for in college?

MR. BURKE: Think ways to keep expanding on their passions, whatever they’re curious about, dive in and see where it goes. I mean, there’s just so much free time. I mean, you could be a podcaster. You could be like, “I’m gonna do podcasting on the site.” See what happens. I did a writer radio show, like DJ, I played hip hop music, and most of my slots were 10 to 12 on Thursday night, so not a bad slot. So we would do mashups, you know, there wasn’t Eminem at the time because he came in the late 90s, but, like, it was more like New York City rappers and stuff. We take a beat from one rapper and put, you know, the lyrics from another song, and try it and it sounded horrible. We didn’t know what we were doing but then we would go out at night, and if at two in the morning nothing was happening, it was fun, they would shut down the radio station, but we could turn it back on. So some nights, we would play records from 2 a.m. to 6 a.m.. We’d just keep the radio station going all night, just me and my buddy Matt, and we’d just be playing because after 2 a.m. we could play lyrics that had swear words. So we could play, like, all the rough stuff and the heavy hardcore hip hop, and we would just be geeking out. People call the radio station four in the morning asking for songs. So there were some people out there listening, which is awesome. So I would say, like for college, just like, hit the ground running and just get into whatever you’re passionate about, and understanding that you are going to be fine, the academics won’t be too hard. Just build your network and have fun.

GRACE: Do you have any other last piece of advice?

MR. BURKE: No, I just wish you guys could understand how smart you are. You know, like someone made a comment the other day. They’re like, you know, bell curves go like that. It’s like, you’re at the top of the world in middle school, and then you come to TJ, and you feel horrible about things. Then you get back up at the end of TJ, and then you go to college, and all of a sudden you’re back on top again. So I think for college, I just hope you guys can sort of make peace with the struggles at TJ and understand that you now, whatever you want to do, it’s just a matter of execution. Of course, stay out of bad relationships, right? Easy on the substances like just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s good for you. You know, all you vapers out there, it’s not safer than smoking, so understand the risks and make smart decisions, whole foods, less processed foods. Now I sound like an old man, call your mother, call your father on the weekends, you know, all that stuff. Yeah, but yeah, so, I mean, I don’t know. I just, I think the world of TJ kids, you guys are incredibly gifted and talented, and you’ve worked harder than anybody. It’s like the perfect mix. Perfect mix, super talented, super hard working. After 20 years here, when I meet TJ alums, I’m constantly, “Oh, you’re doing that. Oh my God, oh my God.” It’s like every alumni is doing well, so I believe that you guys will do the same.

GRACE: Awesome. Alright, thank you so much, I appreciate it.

MR. BURKE: Thank you.

GRACE: And that wraps up our episode with Mr. Burke. Tune in next week to hear from a student who was invited to New York fashion week and her advice for cold emailing and building a network. Thanks for listening. From tjTALKS, this is Grace Sharma. See you next time.